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Super UserAnyone getting sick of "bundled" products?
[+27] [10] 280Z28
[2009-08-05 08:38:13]
[ installation updates annoyances ]
[ http://superuser.com/questions/18379] [DELETED]

The installer for Java 6 Update 15 was just released, and I see they've switched from the Yahoo toolbar to an online backup provider. What's up with it never remembering the previous setting? As is, I have to make sure and let all my friends/family whose computers I help maintain to uncheck the box every single time they update. It's not just Java, either - I know the Trillian installer is bundling the Ask toolbar, and I'm sure there are countless others.

How do y'all manage the situation? It's completely unreasonable to expect everyone I help out to catch these cases as they arise, and it takes up my time whenever I have to go back through and dig things out that slip by.

(1) Use Linux... ;) - DisgruntledGoat
We need to send the message loud and clear to Oracle/Sun that Java coming with toolbars and other stuff, will destroy Java. Then again, maybe that's what the Big Guy wants. - Warren P
[+27] [2009-08-05 08:54:15] svandragt [ACCEPTED]

Not a solution but I am really waiting for a developer to create an application that has a preferences for installers to respect, together with sample code for others to implement these choices in their installation routines + a website advocating this installation standard.

  • do not create a desktop/quicklaunch icon
  • do not install third party products
  • agree to the terms of use by running the installer
  • do not display a finish summary but exit on success

Possibly an opportunity to add extensibility for application updaters that can link into this.


(16) +1. We have a common dream. - R. Martinho Fernandes
(4) And do not create a Quick Launch icon, either. - grawity
(3) And to stop creating folders/shortcuts in the way "publisher/developer/name_of_program", which forced me to do an Internet search to find back a software before using Launchy... - Gnoupi
(2) The whole idea of an install "wizard" is silly; dammit just give me one page with fewest options possible (preferably only the install location). The silliest part of the wizard is the first "welcome" page that does nothing useful, oh and the last "I'm done" page too. - hasen j
(3) You want the mac install: just drag the app icon to the allpication folder and you're done. - RCIX
(1) Debian's model of packages and apt-get is brilliant - hasen j
(2) You forgot "do not open readme" - hyperslug
Allowing automatised agreeing to terms of use via an API might remove the legal power of the terms of use. - Christian
Although it's not like they had much legal power to begin with. - MiffTheFox
I guess that's one nice thing about the Adobe AIR and Silverlight apps coming out that can run on the desktop. First of all, both technologies are somewhat restricted in terms of access to your computer so you won't get security warning when installing them. Secondly, the install process is basically a one-click operation where you can choose where you want the shortcut(s) and click "install." - Steve Wortham
I can understand not wanting the start and "I'm done" pages, but I see the last page as something useful to tell me that it has successfully installed. And it doesn't take more than a click to get rid of it unless the developer has silly options enabled (start program immediately, view readme, etc). - Tom
In each case like Java above, someone has to SAY something, in an organized way. If a huge community revolt happens against Sun/Oracle for doing this, then change is possible. Otherwise, it is not. Bundled crapware is a problem in free downloads, but also on brand new PCs. Crapware is a blight on the industry. - Warren P
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[+4] [2009-09-15 16:49:18] bobince

Installers which bundle toolbars and other adware crud are bad enough, but updaters are worst. When you're setting up someone's computer for them you can uncheck the rubbish at install-time, but if the updater does it too you're left with an untenable situation: disable the updater and potentially leave net-facing software insecure, or leave it on and wait for the machine to get messed up with unwanted apps.

So, I just don't install Java any more. Sorry Sun, but your client-side experience — the updater especially — has always sucked. Applets (plus the few popular consumer Java apps) just aren't enough for me to put up with your crap. This abuse was the final straw: into the bitbucket with you.

(The same goes for Real and QuickTime. Flash video won, you guys with your annoyances are no longer welcome. And you, Adobe Reader: there are better alternatives that don't bundle anything or try to install a pointless plugin that makes my browser insecure.)

Other software (that unlike network-facing plugins is not quite as security-sensitive) can have the updaters turned off until I get around to checking manually. But anything that tries to bundle on an update is getting uninstalled fast anyway.

Ban the check [1]. Kill software that uses bundling updaters.

[1] http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/blogs/mowgreen/index.php?showentry=1564

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[+3] [2009-08-05 09:13:34] Jon Hopkins

You have to weigh up the cost (in terms of time and inconvenience) against the benefit.

Software tends to fall into three categories:

1) That which behaves well in this regard and therefore so long as it's even remotely useful is fine

2) That which behaves badly but is very useful (or, like Java, basically mandatory) in which case you have to go through advanced installs, deselect options and then tidy up after it. Not great and leaves a bad taste in your mouth but ultimately the effort is still worth it because what you get at the end is still worth having (or at the very least the price of doing business).

3) That which behaves badly and doesn't offer enough benefit in which case for me it doesn't even get as far as completing the install.

I can see the appeal of the model from the perspective of those being paid but for those piggybacking their products it's essentially the refuge of the desperate. Think about it - your product is free but it's so bad you're effectively having to pay to get people to install it. How about putting that money into developing something people don't object to instead? Might be a bit more sustainable.

Put that way I'd hope that this is something which will pass with time, a business model which will ultimately be seen as unworkable, that does little other than skew the installed user base numbers (after all, who cares if they've got it installed if they don't use it, hate it and hate you as a result) and damage your reputation. I just wish they'd get there sooner.


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[+2] [2009-08-05 08:43:17] tomfanning

As a result of this cropping up more and more, I've now started turning off auto-updates on Java every time I install it.

Not great for security but I don't see what choice I have.


(2) Turning off security updates is a bad idea. The only other option (other than just putting up with it) is to stop using the product that irritates you in this way. Unfortunately you may be locked into having the official JRE installed depending on what software you need/want to use. - David Spillett
(2) Tell me something I don't know. - tomfanning
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[+1] [2009-08-05 15:09:14] hasen j

Find alternative distributions (e.g. portable apps), or alternative software (preferably FOSS ones).


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[+1] [2009-08-05 16:11:31] A. Scagnelli

You could try creating a batch file that calls the installer silently and unchecks the additional software boxes. This is typically done in corporate environemnts for a large-scale software distribution or update. Send out the patch installer and the batch file together, and just instruct your friends/family to run the batch file instead of the installer.


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[0] [2009-09-15 20:26:46] Christian

In the end the bundling is a way for the developers to make money.


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[0] [2009-09-15 20:51:19] MiffTheFox

Every time I develop software, I always make it able to run from a single path, and if I can, from a single EXE. The uninstaller: rm.


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[0] [2009-08-05 14:48:43] hasen j

Sadly, the only way I know of right now is to educate people about disabling these options.


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[0] [2009-08-05 14:50:55] Troggy
  • Do not install "install" software. I hate to see add/remove programs full of something installer or company activation software.
  • Do not auto check mark every install option.
  • Make sure your uninstallers actualy work.

(1) "Make sure your uninstallers actually work" - that is ALL TOO TRUE, alas! - Keithius
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